Let me ask you a question, Sith Overlord. You're the leader of the 501st, right? Would you let these Mandos in your club?
Ha ha ha ha good comparison point and gave me a good laugh this afternoon. The contrast is STARK indeed! ;D
In response to your question, I'm the Commanding Officer of the local chapter of the 501st Legion, the 501st Malaysia-Brunei Outpost, until I retired an the end of February 2009, hence CO Emeritus (like Professor emeritus ).
I certainly have the answer your question, "Would you let these Mandos in your club?". I've summed up part of the 501st Legion's membership requirement history that specifically answered your question : Custom Mando costumes and other customs were effectively removed from the membership roster back in 2005 by the then Legion Membership Officer. This was as a Legion wide process to assure the accuracy and professional quality of costumes depicted in the 501st Legion website and to address members with inaccurate costume pictures.
Called the Custom Mandalorian Purge of 2005, any member that joined the 501st Legion as a BH (Bounty Hunter) with substandard quality and custom made costumes that did NOT meet the screen established and accepted SW Expanded Universe characters had their BH designation removed. This remained in effect until today.
I hope this factual data has answered your question.
DZ/TK/TS/TD 2870 Outpost Founding Member and CO Emeritus of[/color][/b]
Thanks for the clarification. So what you're saying is that EU and screen based Mandos are allowed, but customs Mandos other than the abovementioned are disallowed? Seems kinda harsh, although I do agree that substandard quality Mandos should not be allowed entry. Heck, substandard anything shouldn't be allowed entry, otherwise that freak stormtrooper outfit in the pic above would pass the 501st entry requirement, right? God forbid! I've seen the local chapter of the 501st here in Sydney and I must say they look very impressive... put one of those substandard Mandos and freaky troopers and that impressiveness will be taken down many many notches.
During my brief stint as the Garrison Member Liaison of the Malaysian 501st, I received a number of applications from people who were interested to join. My criteria for entry, which is the 501st's main criteria, is that you have to look like you just "stepped out of the movie screen". Which means costume wise, you've got to be screen accurate... not necessarily 100%, but close. When I started my Vader costume for admission purposes, I did plenty of research to make sure all the details are covered. I was using Rubies Supreme hard parts back then and a lot of modifications were required to make it accurate. At the end of the day, quality has to be ensured... not to say your costume parts must be the most super expensive ones in the market, but that they look good enough to maintain the "stepped out of the movie screen" look.
If you feel so strongly about us "destroying" the Fett image, I consider that as your honest and spirited opinion... and I only see 501st standards on the "accuracy" of custom Mandos here.
Let me be clear on one thing... I started this thread to expose Malaysians to custom Mandalorian armor. Yes. CUSTOM armor. We're not talking about screen accuracy here. More on personal interpretations of Mandalorian armor taken from or inspired by the EU.
Post by novalltalon on Oct 19, 2009 10:00:59 GMT 8
Red asked me to toss up a post that will hopefully clear up any misconceptions that may be going around.
Azazel, of course your entitled to your opinion...but in all fairness I would challenge you to do better. Red is probably the most innovative Mandalorian costume crafter in Malaysia. He's also one of the few people to do a Mandalorian costume from multiple eras of Star Wars.
The great thing about Mandalorian armor is that unlike TK and Clone armor, it's very different for the person and the job it's used for. The Mandalorian Mercs is the LFL preferred Mandalorian costume club just like the 501st and RL are the LucasFilm Ltd. preferred clubs for Imperial and Rebels. Sure we don't do as many events as the larger clubs because we aren't canon, however our costume standards are extremely high for a group that allows custom costumes.
Feel free to check us out as Red has suggested, maybe that will help change your opinion a little. Star Wars is a big playground, and we all like to play in it the way which suits us best.
Cheers, Novall Talon Founder: Mandalorian Mercs Costume Club
Oh I'm all for personal interpretation. It's just that I think if you're to interpret a character or a set of characters from a particular franchise, you should at least do it with an appreciation of those character/characters. I have no doubt that Raymond Ramirez has a deep appreciation of Mandalorians and interpreted that faithfully when he created Ram Zerimar (yes, I googled him up!) hence the honor bestowed upon him in the Star Wars EU. I'm sure a lot of customs Mandos get deserved credit too if they remain faithful to the Mando lore. A Mando with an owl-like helmet? A Mando with Kiss boots? See what I'm getting at?
I'm of the view that if a person doesn't have an appreciation of the character/characters and create something "custom" out of that just because that person thinks its cool, then he is not doing that character any justice. Point in fact would be this bloke here:
A lot of people think its funny but I found it deeply insulting. As a person who is building a Darth Vader display and have gone through countless hours of research into that persona, I'm perturbed that someone would have the gall to take my beloved character and turn him into such an atrocity. The same might be said for someone who takes a Stormtrooper costume and adds a cowboy-styled holster with Colt Peacemakers hanging from it with spurs added to the leg pieces. It may look cool to that person, but to a true fan, it's an abomination.
novalltalon, thanks for clarifying. I would love to take up your challenge, but custom Mandos aren't my thing. If I were to build a Mando, Boba Fett would be my choice. In any case, as I mentioned earlier, I'm building a Vader display. It has taken years of my life and another project would only prolong my "suffering".
Here I go again, I won’t say any name so I won’t insult anyone in my post;
First, go to the top of this page, see what the thread name is under, clearly it’s under Mandalorian Armour, not 501st Armour.
Maybe the statement ‘the fourth largest Star Wars costuming club in the world’ and ‘Malaysian Book Of Records’ has blurred the vision of the reader but I want to pinpoint here is Mandaloran Mercs Costuming Club is Lucasfilm Ltd approved.
“You're the leader of the 501st, right? Would you let these Mandos in your club?”
Get your facts right: 501st Legion and Mandalorian Mercs Costuming Club is a totally different thing. I won’t waste my time explaining it, read it thoroughly on each website.
The question was asked to the wrong person, who’s the leader of 501st? Try to snatch a dictionary nearby and search the word emeritus and understand the first word on the adj explanation. If you don’t have a dictionary, here’s one of the free online dictionary: www.thefreedictionary.com/emeritus
Finally, I would like to ask, what is the level or definition of cool? Everybody have they own take on level of coolness. From my experience, I won a contest even I’m not cool. Other contestant have better costume, armour, weaponry but what I have is the charm to interact with public and weirdly, I become the most requested character to be taken photo with public. I myself think I’m not cool or I would win anything but the organizer of the event found me cool. I proudly say that I won that competition the first time I wore Mando armor. Now, that’s cool.
Please, I know all of us are full of passion. We have our own project, have our own goals and challenges but that don’t give us right to condemn others project. All forumer should respect each other. I know some of the post wasn’t made to provoke but then again, if simple facts were wrongly debated, who wouldn’t be angry? The best way is apologize, a simple sorry is enough. Thanks
“When it comes to the future, there are three kinds of people: those who let it happen, those who make it happen, and those who wonder what happened.”
OK, OK... I'm sorry... that you didn't understand what I was getting at.
I'm not declaring open war on the Mandalorian Mercs Club. As advised, I paid a visit to the site and sure enough, there are impressive looking Mandos on display, like the aforementioned Ram Zerimar. But the proverbial barrel is not always full of nice red shiny apples. There are a few rotten ones that don't quite make the grade, you know what I mean?
And about the question I posed to The Sith Overlord, I don't know what's the big deal about it. First of all, I didn't know custom Mandos were not allowed the the 501st until Overlord explained it.
Second of all, all professional costuming clubs have high standards for admission (as far as I know) hence, since I have no other reference point or contact at another club to check with, I asked the first logical person, i.e. Overlord, since he claims to be the CO or CO Emeritus of the Malaysian 501st. Now that novalltalon is on board, he has kindly confirmed that point. In his own words "our costume standards are extremely high for a group that allows custom costumes." I.e. high quality ones in, substandard ones out. Substandard, in my view, is when a costumer is not faithful to what he is trying to emulate. And this is true not just with the Mandos but other characters as well. Take a look at this fella for example:
He's obviously had too much cheeseburgers.
He may have the most expensive costume parts, but is he faithful to Vader? I've seen 300 Spartan costumers who actually take a whole year to build their bodies in order to look like the ones on screen. In the case of armored characters, you don't have to go to those lengths (except for the above Vader that is), but you just have to make sure you maintain those mystifying traits that the characters displayed on screen, in the comics or in the novels. Mandalorians are tough guys who look menacing are imposing in their armor. When you make a custom Mando that looks ridiculous, you would have ruined that persona. It doesn't take much... you may have Bobamaker's parts, but if you add "custom" parts like a real world fanny pack or wear sneakers or even carry a replica Beretta as a side arm, you've ruined the Mando image.
Lastly, what's with the lesson on the word "emeritus"? I know what it means. I asked Overlord's view based on his credentials in his sig. He may be the ex CO, but he should definitely know the standards of entry, right? The minute the present CO chimes in, I'll be sure to ask him the same question, ok?
As for the question of coolness, I'm approaching it from the fan point of view (in case you still can't deduce that from my postings), not the public at large. The public at large wouldn't know the difference between a Mandalore or a Mangalore or a Bangalore. A fan would. So when I compared the different coolness levels of the Mandalorian hall of famers, I was doing it from a fan perspective. And as fan, some of the Mandalorian costumes displayed in the first post ruins the cool factor for me. Is it wrong for me to feel that? Should I be sorry? I think not. If I apologized for my views, I would be nothing more than a hypocrite.
I just managed to snatch a couple of minutes off to have a look at this thread... and can't believe I had to end up going through... this... this...
I had the same pre-conception when Red asked me to join the Mercs - i.e. that I needed to build a screen-accurate 'official' costume to join. After which, he assured me that Mercs didn't need 'screen-accurate', just 'high-quality Mando-like'. Which got me thinking that this club was way different from RL or 501st.
And it was a good thing.
I'm not saying this to stick up for Red or anything, but Mercs allow more creativity and inspiration in their members than the others. People who want to end up as a umpteenth screen accurate Darth Vader or faceless Stormtrooper should, by all means, try to join the 501st. People who want to show how much Star Wars has inspired them and want to be 'unique', should join something like the Mercs.
To each his own, and I personally find Mercs more palatable.
And to compare Red's costumes with the 'jaws' Stormtrooper is totally out of line. That Stormtrooper helmet was obviously a poor attempt at the original, whereas Red's was an original attempt. They're two totally different things. Attempting to copy 'Sunflowers' and ending up with a painting of sunflower seeds is different from drawing orchids and ending up with orchids. If Red was attempting to make Boba Fett and ended up with 'owl-eyes' and tried to pass it off as Boba Fett, I'd smite him down myself.
Red, I know you just probably wanted people to comment on your creations (which I consider as 'inspired', btw), this thread probably ended up as something better - making people realize that Mercs may be the most unique of all the official Lucasfilm costuming clubs.
... this thread probably ended up as something better - making people realize that Mercs may be the most unique of all the official Lucasfilm costuming clubs.
As a 501st member, I'm offended by that remark. In my view, all LFL endorsed costuming organization, be it Mando Mercs or 501st or Rebel Legion, are unique. Each has their own characteristics that make them appeal to everyone. Saying one group is better than the other is bad form.
Pertaining this thread, I seriously don't know what the big deal is. Azazel may not be the most subtle of persons, but he's entitled to his opinion. At least he doesn't go on an "all out offensive"; trust me, I've seen worse... flame wars laced with profanities and genealogical insults... at least this thread has not degenerated to that (and hopefully it never will). Besides, before he showed up with his "colorful" views (), the Myscififan forum was as good as D-E-D. Aside from Assjedi updating us with his SEJA events and the once in a blue moon birthday wish, this forum was full of cobwebs. Thanks to Azazel, we get to see you lot posting again! lol Not only that, we get a new member in the form of novaltallon! Welcome, dude!
When I first started my Vader suit, I shared my progress on a number of forums. There were a lot of criticism, not all constructive or cordial, but I take it all in good stride. I use them to improve my costume and make it better, both in my eyes and that of my peers. I don't go on defensive maneuvers and attack the critics. I welcome their comments.
Azazel, as many have expressed before me, you are entitled to your opinions. And I hope you continue to voice them and I also hope those people who are "affected" accept the criticisms, both from Azazel and from others here in a constructive manner. Just remember: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You may spend hours making a costume and you think it's the coolest thing in the world, but others might not share that view. Hence the purpose of this forum: to discuss the differences of opinions and learn to improve from those discussions.
Over and out.
Last Edit: Oct 20, 2009 19:35:47 GMT 8 by kalkamel